Other Java 3D engines

Discussion about Irrlicht's Java wrapper
Imbrondir
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Other Java 3D engines

Post by Imbrondir »

Anybody been trying to work with other pure(r) java implementations of a 3D engine like jMonkeyEngine, Jake, jPCT...? How does that compare to irrlicht? I like that jogl is swing compatible, but on the other hand, a higher level wrapper than pure opengl would probobly result in less jni calls, giving better performance.
Tranen
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Post by Tranen »

Yes I've worked with Java3d and Jme. Another nice engine is xith3d, similar to java3d but more game-oriented. I don't know how to compare it with irrlicht, because I've not tested yet (I'm trying to use jirr since I've poor knoweldge of c++)

Jme is the most similar to irrlicht because has a lot of pre-built classes while java3d is more a "render only" engine (like ogre). I don't agree with the fact that jme is faster than java3d. Java3d permits more control over performance than jme but you must be aware of how java3d works. Java3D is also very good docemented while jme is not.

The problem is that for what i know the official developement of java3D has been suspended at time..
Pyritie
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Post by Pyritie »

JOGL is the more recent 3D java thingy. I suggest taking a look at that.

I've played around with jME. Not very well documented at all. I was completely lost D:

Jirr on the other hand is well documented (well, irrlicht is anyway). Only problem is that the guy who worked on jirr suddenly disappeared and only released binaries without any source. :(
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I've moved to Ogre.
Tranen
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Post by Tranen »

JOGL is not a 3d engine is just a binding to the OpenGL api.

It must be said that jme is not well documentated, but the soruce code comes with a lot of examples, it has a nice physic engine and a large community. But the engine design is a bit "chaotic" and is not so easy to learn than Java3D.
Pyritie
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Post by Pyritie »

At the moment I've been taking a look at a java wrapper for OGRE. I've found several large holes in irrlicht which kinda showed that there are better graphics engines out there.
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I've moved to Ogre.
Tranen
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Post by Tranen »

Do you find bugs in irrlicht or in jirr?
I haven't tried jirr yet, how it is?

I have tried the ogre java binding, I find it slow compared to to other java engines, i think that this happens when a library must use a lot of JNI calls..

If you are intereted I've used Java3d for a while, so if you have some question about it, ask me..
Pyritie
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Post by Pyritie »

Jirr's pretty good. It's very fast, much like irrlicht. Unfortunately it's still a version behind irrlicht so some new features in irrlicht aren't available in jirr yet.

Hmm, is ogre slow? The .exe demos certainly weren't as fast as irrlicht's were. I tried both of their bsp loader demos. Ogre's had about 250 FPS with 3k triangles on the screen while Jirr's had about 500 FPS with 6k.

However, one of the things about ogre's java wrapper is that it also has some nice stuff built in that irrlicht has to have addons for, such as proper shader support and good physics engines. If you're using jirr, you'd have to translate the addons to java by hand whereas with ogre4j they're already there (I think).
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sudi
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Post by sudi »

Pyritie wrote: However, one of the things about ogre's java wrapper is that it also has some nice stuff built in that irrlicht has to have addons for, such as proper shader support and good physics engines. If you're using jirr, you'd have to translate the addons to java by hand whereas with ogre4j they're already there (I think).
Ähh where do u need a addon for shader support?
Last edited by sudi on Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tranen
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Post by Tranen »

I haven't tried jirr yet, I think that the java ogre wrapper is slower compared to other java engines such jme or java3d. This is just my opinon maybe a benchmark would be a better proof.

For what I know Ogre is just a rendering engine, i don't think that it has some pre-built physical engine or audio library. Irrlicht is more a "game engine" than ogre.

I think that we can say:

Ogre --> Java3D (more focus on rendering)
Irrlicht --> Jme (more game engine and utility classes)

And if you are searching for a good phyisical engine you can use Jbullet, the java binding of bullet :lol:
sudi
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Post by sudi »

Tranen wrote: Ogre --> Java3D (more focus on rendering)
Irrlicht --> Jme (more game engine and utility classes)
Actually i can't see that relation honestly....
Where are these gameengine and utility classes in irrlicht??? I guess u mean the collision response animator and the FPS camera animator right? Well if that are the classes u r talking about, have u tried making a game with it more like a jumping fps camera which often gets stuck in the geometry? I think this stuff is great for trying some really simple prototype but for actual dev this is not really suiteable. when i missed something please enlighten me.
We're programmers. Programmers are, in their hearts, architects, and the first thing they want to do when they get to a site is to bulldoze the place flat and build something grand. We're not excited by renovation:tinkering,improving,planting flower beds.
Tranen
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Post by Tranen »

Hi Sudi, maybe you are right and the difference between irrlicht and ogre is smaller than the difference between java3d and jme.

however, i mean the collision response animator, the FPS camera animator, the integrate terrain system, input handler, official sound library, official importers for the most common format, water scene node and stuff like this that are part of the official distribution.

I think that this features can be easely integrated into ogre or they already exists as addons but they are not part of the "official distribution"

Back to the original question of this tread, another good engine is Jpct. It has less features than jme but is more simple, compact and supports portal rendering and software rendering.
Pyritie
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Post by Pyritie »

Tranen wrote:the integrate terrain system,
Built in
input handler,
Built in
official sound library, official importers for the most common format,
It uses its own .mesh format but there are exporters for maya, 3ds max, and several others
water scene node and stuff like this that are part of the official distribution.
Built in

Back to the original question of this tread, another good engine is Jpct. It has less features than jme but is more simple, compact and supports portal rendering and software rendering.
A huge problem I had with jme is the great lack of tutorials. There's only one decent tutorial but it's only half finished. So learning how to use the engine is a pain, if you really want to use it. I think jirr or ogre4j are much better than jme.

I haven't tried java3d yet so I don't know what that one's like.
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sudi
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Post by sudi »

Tranen wrote:Hi Sudi, maybe you are right and the difference between irrlicht and ogre is smaller than the difference between java3d and jme.

however, i mean the collision response animator, the FPS camera animator, the integrate terrain system, input handler, official sound library, official importers for the most common format, water scene node and stuff like this that are part of the official distribution.

I think that this features can be easely integrated into ogre or they already exists as addons but they are not part of the "official distribution"
All this is already in ogre...
and btw the "official sound library" how u call irrklang has nothing to do with irrlicht besides the irr and the developer. its not even free for commercial use. So thats really not the official irrlicht soundlib...
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hybrid
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Post by hybrid »

Sudi wrote:So thats really not the official irrlicht soundlib...
Says who? AFAIK, irrKlang is the only sound lib that provides a complete sound scene node setup. And that's the only thing that matters.
sudi
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Post by sudi »

cAudio does the same^^
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